--- title: "Episode 45: Organizational Health: The Hidden Business Risk Boards Miss — with Jim Brown" description: OrgHealth Founder Jim Brown explains why organizational health is a board-level risk issue, not an HR program, and what 60% engagement costs your revenue. --- [![Velocity Advisory Group](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/05/Velocity-Logo-2023-Wide-1.png)](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/) ☰ Menu - About - [Meet Our Team](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/about/) - [Meet Our Coaches](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/coaches/) - [Careers](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/careers/) - [Speaking Engagements](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/velocity-speakers/) - Solutions - [Culture & Engagement](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/culture-engagement/) - [DISC Assessments & Training](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/disc-assessments-training/) - [Employee Experience](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/employee-experience/) - [Executive Coaching](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/executive-coaching/) - [Family Business](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/family-business/) - [Leadership Development](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/leadership-development/) - [Sales Training](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/5cs-of-selling/) - [Strategy & Implementation](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/strategy-implementation/) - Resources - [Activating Greatness Podcast](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/podcast/) - [Blog](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/blog/) - [Case Studies](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/case-studies/) - [News and Announcements](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/news-and-events/) - [OrderDisc](https://orderdisc.com/) - [Upcoming Events](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/upcoming-events/) - Industries - [Construction](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/construction/) - [Financial Services](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/financial-services/) - [Life Sciences](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/lifesciences/) - [Contact](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/contact/) Activating Greatness Podcast Episodes August 31, 2026 | Episode 45 # Organizational Health: The Hidden Business Risk Boards Miss — with Jim Brown ## Your People Are Giving 60%: Jim Brown on the 4 Hidden Risks Behind Organizational Health **In this post:** *OrgHealth Founder Jim Brown explains why organizational health belongs on the board agenda as risk management, not an HR line item. He maps four hidden risks and shows what 60% effort quietly costs revenue.* The plant was running out of time. Global headquarters had singled out one country's operation as the company's highest-cost producer. Turn it around, the message went, or the plant closes. Close to 700 jobs were on the line. Jim Brown, the Founder of consulting firm OrgHealth, was working with the company. He did not start with cost cutting. He started with organizational health at the leadership table, where division heads competed for budget and the best people, and, as he put it, "they lie to each other about things." Within 12 months, the plant became the lowest-cost producer, Brown said on *Activating Greatness*, the leadership podcast from Velocity Advisory Group. "Every company has that opportunity," he said. "It's that big." Brown has spent 31 years advising boards and executive teams across North America. His new novel, *The Imperfect CEO: Making the Climb to Organizational Health*, follows protagonist David Slater back 20 years into his leadership journey. The book makes a case many executives agree with in theory and refuse to fund in practice. Brown's answer to that refusal is the sharpest idea in the conversation: Stop calling it culture. Call it risk. ## Organizational Health and the Budget Objection Host Alec McChesney put the objection plainly. Almost nobody disagrees with investing in people, he said, but plenty of leaders say they cannot budget for it during a bad quarter, because the only thing that matters is revenue. Brown pointed to where the money is controlled. Boards hold the purse, and CEOs often feel watched by them. When leaders say "organizational health," Brown said, most senior people hear an HR initiative "worth about 20,000 a year," and they let HR figure it out. So Brown changes the vocabulary. The four elements of his Ascent model each map to a risk he argues is hidden in most businesses: - **Collaborative culture:** Scalability risk. - **Leadership accountability:** Execution risk. - **Strategic momentum:** Growth risk. - **Talent magnetism:** People risk. Boards, Brown said, want to know what leaders are doing to understand the risks they suspect are there but cannot see clearly, and what managing those risks will pay. ## The 60% Math "The question isn't, what about revenue, the question is what about net," Brown said. He cited Gallup's global research on workforce engagement, which he said puts average effort at about 60%. Nobody can measure exactly how much revenue a company lost last year because people gave 60% instead of 100%. Brown argues the math is clear anyway. > "If they only gave 60% of their effort, there's a good chance you only got 60% of the revenue." > > *Jim Brown, Founder, OrgHealth* He then asks leaders what they would do with 40% more revenue, and whether an investment of a couple hundred thousand dollars makes sense for a company doing $20 million, $50 million, or $100 million. Every board, he said, will say yes, as long as the investment pays. The gains also do not arrive in a straight line. When people believe they are trusted and valued, and their ideas get resources, Brown said, productivity follows a "hockey stick." His favorite stress test is a board goal to double revenue in four years. Could the current workforce and systems handle twice the demand? Or would doubling reveal that the same few people do the hard work, while new hires stay 10 months and leave for $6 an hour more? That, Brown said, is a scalability risk, and the fix is a collaborative culture. FREE ONE-PAGE CHECKLIST ### The Four Hidden Risks Checklist Score your company on scalability, execution, growth, and people risk, then bring the results to your board framed as risk, not an HR request. [Get the free checklist](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/leadership-library/four-hidden-risks-checklist) ## What WD-40 Proved Brown pointed to Garry Ridge, who led WD-40 Company as CEO for more than 25 years. Ridge, he said, "dared to believe that if we invest in people, it will pay off," and the results made him bolder. During the Great Recession, WD-40 did not lay off anyone. The company talked it through together and decided everyone would tighten their belts a little so that nobody had to suffer dramatically. Ridge was at the front of the line cutting his own salary. The investment more than paid off, Brown said, and WD-40's engagement scores are in the high 90s. The opposite approach looks familiar. Brown described a company that raised its growth target every year for eight years, then set a 12% goal. About two-thirds of the people missed it and lost their bonuses. They concluded that no matter how well they performed, more would always be required. "That was demoralizing," Brown said. ## The Cost of Doing Nothing Back at the plant, the turnaround took about three months to take hold. Department and division leaders began meeting weekly to ask one question: What is the biggest bottleneck in the company here, and what has to happen to change it? Leaders who once hoarded budget started offering it to peers. When one leader said shipping needed 12 people to meet deadlines, another offered four and a third found six. Healthy companies collect a second dividend. Brown works with companies that spend more than $1 million a year trying to attract employees. The healthy ones, he said, spend nothing, because people line up to work there. None of that savings shows up in the books. Jeanne Hecht of Lexitas Pharma Services made a similar argument about [culture as a strategic value driver](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-29-ceo-owns-culture-jeanne-hecht), and Jackie Fisher of Juneau Construction laid out [the business case for culture](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-30-hiring-for-culture-fit-jackie-fisher). McChesney framed the real question: It is not what development costs, but what it costs not to do it. "Exactly right," Brown said. The pressure is also coming from below. Gen Z, Brown said, will not work somewhere that treats them like an "interchangeable, disposable widget." He does not see that as a threat. "It's past due," he said. ## Rapid-Fire Leadership Lessons - **Daily habit:** Leading himself first. "I believe that I am the hardest person to lead in the world," Brown said. Each day he asks what he needs to work on in himself so the people he serves are better served. - **Most underrated skill:** "Closing their mouth." Stop being the answer person and ask the team. The answers will almost always include what you would have said, and that means the culture does not depend on you. - **Stop doing:** Doing what made you a star. A CEO who came up through finance should celebrate the new Chief Financial Officer instead of living in the numbers. - **Best advice:** Lead two organizations, the one that exists today and the one you must become five years from now. HOW VELOCITY HELPS ### Velocity Culture & Engagement Brown's argument turns on a number most companies never measure: how much effort their people are actually giving. Velocity's Culture and Engagement work makes that visible through culture assessments, engagement surveys, and stakeholder interviews, so leadership teams and boards can see where collaboration, accountability, and trust are breaking down. The High Performance Culture Workshop then helps executives turn those findings into the shared habits that keep a company growing when the targets get harder. [Explore Culture and Engagement](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/culture-engagement/) ## The Takeaway: Lead the Company You Will Become Brown's best advice came in one line: "I have to lead two organizations." If leaders do not hold the future organization in mind, he said, they unintentionally let the company keep being what it already is. That is the real risk behind the budget objection. Skipping the investment in people does not preserve revenue. It locks in 60% effort, a revolving door, and a leadership table that competes with itself. Leaders who treat organizational health as risk management, and report it to the board that way, give their companies a chance at the kind of turnaround Brown watched happen in 12 months. ## Listen to the Full Episode Hear Jim Brown's full conversation with host Alec McChesney on *Activating Greatness*. [Find it on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/@VelocityAdvisoryGroup), or listen on [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/show/4LcgAut0KyYiGyDhFvMjPD) and [Apple Podcasts](https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1868386871). FREE GUIDE ### The Ascent Model Map Brown's four Ascent elements to the business risks they reveal, then mark where your organization stands today so you can address each one before your board asks. [Get the free guide](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/leadership-library/ascent-model) Share: [facebook-f icon](http://www.facebook.com/share.php?u=https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown) [linkedin-in icon](http://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown) [Twitter icon](https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown) [pinterest-p icon](http://pinterest.com/pin/create/link/?url=https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown) [envelope icon](mailto:?body=https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown) [Culture & Engagement](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/culture-engagement) [Strategy & Change](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/strategy-change) ## Ready to activate greatness on your team? Velocity Advisory Group helps leadership teams build the culture, strategy, and systems that let good people do their best work. [Book a discovery call](https://www.velocityadvisorygroup.com/contact/) ## Related posts [![EP 7 With Julie Blasingim](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/ep-7-Julie-1.png?height=200&name=ep-7-Julie-1.png)](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-7-leading-with-mission-under-pressure-julie-blasingim) [Leadership Mindset](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/leadership-mindset) ## [Episode 7: How to Lead With Mission When the Pressure Is On — with Julie Blasingim](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-7-leading-with-mission-under-pressure-julie-blasingim) [Alec McChesney](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/author/alec-mcchesney) Feb 8, 2026, 3:30:00 PM Best, Not Biggest: Julie Blasingim on Leading With Mission Under Pressure In this post: Univo IRB... [Read more](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-7-leading-with-mission-under-pressure-julie-blasingim) [Construction](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/construction), [Strategy & Change](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/strategy-change) ## [Episode 52: Construction Leadership Development Without a Playbook — with Lisa O'Brien](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-52-construction-leadership-development-lisa-obrien) [Alec McChesney](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/author/alec-mcchesney) Oct 12, 2026, 8:00:00 AM Construction's 3 Transformations at Once: Lisa O'Brien on Leading Without a Playbook In this post:... [Read more](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-52-construction-leadership-development-lisa-obrien) [![EP 5 With Ryan Payne](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Imported_Blog_Media/ep-5-Ryan-1.png?height=200&name=ep-5-Ryan-1.png)](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-5-the-conversation-advantage-ryan-payne) [Culture & Engagement](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/tag/culture-engagement) ## [Episode 5: Culture Lives in Everyday Conversations, Not Mission Statements — with Ryan Payne](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-5-the-conversation-advantage-ryan-payne) [Alec McChesney](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/author/alec-mcchesney) Jan 26, 2026, 11:02:15 AM Silence Is Not Agreement: Ryan Payne on Why Culture Lives in Everyday Conversations In this post:... [Read more](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-5-the-conversation-advantage-ryan-payne) --- [![](https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Velocity%20Logo%202023%20Wide-2.png?width=1025&height=267&name=Velocity%20Logo%202023%20Wide-2.png)](http://velocityadvisorygroup.com) Copyright © 2026, Velocity Advisory Group ```json { "@context" : "https://schema.org", "@type" : "BlogPosting", "author" : { "@type" : "Person", "name" : "Alec McChesney", "url" : "https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/author/alec-mcchesney" }, "dateModified" : "2026-10-20T14:59:55.572Z", "datePublished" : "2026-08-31T08:00:00.000Z", "headline" : "Episode 45: Organizational Health: The Hidden Business Risk Boards Miss — with Jim Brown", "mainEntityOfPage" : { "@id" : "https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/activating-greatness-podcast-episodes/ep-45-organizational-health-jim-brown", "@type" : "WebPage" }, "publisher" : { "@type" : "Organization", "logo" : { "@type" : "ImageObject", "url" : "https://coaching.velocityadvisorygroup.com/hubfs/Velocity%20Logo%202023%20Wide-2.png" }, "name" : "Velocity Advisory Group" } } ```